I won't be the fool ruining the convos you groom because you are the fool. I knew for long that this was a 'Breaking India'tard. (Check out my small attempt at dismantling Rajiv Malhotra here-> https://thethiravidiantruth.blogspot.com/2021/08/moron-smriti-of-rajiv-malhotra-should.html?m=1).
Do you know what's the sign of a mediocre/inferior mind?
It somehow arrives at some own or borrowed conclusions, and then refuses to change. In the face of counter arguments and proofs, it uses those proofs/args *to simply re-arrive at its existing conclusions*. An inability to see and absorb new things, and to fit them into your existing worldview.
I used to say many times that real anti-hindu, non-hindu breaking india forces do exist, but that they are not the causative agent of Dravidian movement, not it's momentum-giver. If you don't understand Dravidian movement, you won't understand those real Breaking-India forces as well.
I don't know know if Rajiv Malhotra was compromised to begin with, whether he was approached by vellala mafia to come with such a cover-up. Looking at his closeness with Nithyananda Pillai, I'm strongly inclined to think that's the case. I don't know if it's that or he's just the original fool. He doesn't even know tamil, for god's sake.
Opposing for the wrong reason = Supporting
Supporting for the wrong reason = Opposing
Opposing Dravidian Movement saying it's anti hindu = Supporting
Opposing all-caste priesthood because it is against agamas or religion or Brahmins = Supporting
Dravidian movement is simple. It was commissioned by the British and it started out as a force to quell the already weak freedom struggle of Brahmins in Congress.
Brahmin hate was already festering within vellala/Chettiar/balija quarters for a couple of decades so they gladly complied.
To understand their games, you have to understand nagarathar-vellalar mindset. That is the Dravidian mindset and worldview. That is what makes 'politics', which happens everywhere, into 'dravidian politics'. A thin layer. The other castes play along because it is a big legacy, and because it doesn't harm their power/benefit equation in any way.
Except for Brahmins of Tamil Country, nobody has the need or incentive to oppose Dravidian movement fully.
The anti-hindu trick of Chettiar-mudaliar-pillai (Dravidian) movement is ...
They are fully into this 'caste annihilation/equality' mode. So they supposedly oppose Hinduism inasmuch as it causes casteism and inequality. But how did they conclude that casteism sprung out of Hinduism? Neither Hinduism nor casteism exist independent of us. We are all Hindus. We are all caste system. It's not an external thing. But they externalize it. Why do you not attack that base? Thats where the game is. Chettiar-Mudaliar-Pillai
They equate Hinduism with brahminism with caste system. They say we are casteist because we are Hindus and that that Hinduism or casteism is just simply that of the Brahmins.
So, that opposition to Hinduism is a non-issue. They equate Hinduism with caste system/varnashrama with brahminism, and oppose it. It's basically just a defiance of brahmin superiority. But by constantly opposing it, they actually reinforce it, and that's the game too. They need brahminism, but on their terms. This is the key. And if we have any sense of shame, we refuse, not patch up, like you have been trying to do. The equation of Tamils/nagarathar-vellalar with Brahmins is never going to be the same ever again. They have spewed non-human levels of hate and malice for a hundred years and they have to reap what they sowed.
They need brahminism but brahmin hate as well. This is the Nagarathar-Vellalar (Dravidian) psychology. Brahminism was the substrate of many centuries. It was always there, even during the last 100 yrs. ஆத்திகவாதி.
The Brahmin hate part of #drav side, நாத்திகவாதி, was a development in last century. This side emerged to spew the hate of the other devout Hindu Chettiar/mudaliar/Pillai. ஆத்திகவாதி வெளிப்படுத்த முடியாத வெறுப்பை கருப்பு சட்டை போட்டுக்கிட்டு நாத்திகம் பேசுற மாதிரி உமிழ்வான். உண்மையில் அந்த குழு கடுவுளுக்கு, இந்து மதத்துக்கு, ஏன் பார்ப்பனர்களுக்குமே கூட எதிரானவன் இல்ல. அந்த பக்கம் தங்க ஆட்கள் தின்று கொண்டிருக்கும் பார்ப்பனீயத்தை தட்டி விட மாட்டான். அந்த பார்ப்பன வெறுப்பை மட்டும் கொட்டி தீர்த்துப்பான், தமிழர்களை கொட்டி தீர்க்க வைத்தான்.
It's a non-issue. The reason why they keep saying "there is no hinduism/india" is...they want that 'hinduism'...all of it, but without the label alone. They have been imbibing it. The names of the aadhenams begin with "Thiru kailaya parambarai...". What's the problem with the label?
If they accept the 'hindu' label, they have to accept the superiority of Brahmins. Thats the sole problem. (Saivam/vainavam of the vellala soothra kuttis) minus (Hinduism) = (acceptance of brahmin superiority).
They had been ok with it for centuries. Why suddenly some problem?
The were ok with it as long as they had great privilege in tamil society. The supposed superiority of Brahmins didn't prick their eyes. But once they began losing privilege, which belonged to the feudal/agricultural times, the supposed superiority of Brahmins began to prick their eyes.
You need to understand vellala mindset. Chettiars can be seen as part of vellala subculture. Same attitudes.
When they say "we don't want Hinduism", they mean they want everything without the name because that would mean they accept superiority of Brahmins.
Saying "Hinduism is a colonial creation" is not to uproot from Hinduism and plant in Christianity, but to keep all that is in Hinduism without losing a drop, but becoming the topmost social group, using the local martial groups as validators. Maravar/kallar/udayar/agamudayar/goundar etc. That is not guaranteed, but that will definitely be a step towards legitimising vellala supremacy.
And neither is Stalin a vellala not are priests in tamil temples Brahmins. The vellala name for Thevar adiya caste was like some people calling fish as கடல் வாழக்காய் (sea banana). It's not an actual vellala. And the existing priests in tamil temples who are thought to be Brahmins are actually Saiva vellala sootha kuttis. Read my primer.
The existing priests are already Vellalas only but it doesn't contribute to vellala supremacy. They need to wear the cloak of 'brahmin' to get the prestige and it's not prestige for vellala tag. Saying "we are not hindus, we are Saiva/vainavam" is a wish for that. Who do you think will be the top social group in those sects? Them.
The LTTE never probably demanded for a separate state. Of what use what a separate state to them? The demand for eelam came from the Jaffna Vellalas. Vaddukoddai Resolution. Do you know why they asked this?
The Social Disabilities Act of SL govt limited vellala casteism. They wanted to have a free hand in oppressing the lower castes. Thats why they spoke and speak about federalism and secession.
TN nagarathar+vellalar spoke about caste eradication for a hundred years. But their whole worldview of caste eradication was just brahmin Hate. In truth, they are the most casteist of all. Factually, literally. They created no social justice. That happened by itself. They only cooked up an imagined social injustice and have been at it for a century.
The reason why they speak of regionalism/federalism and discarding 'hindu' identity is because the umbrella socio-political-religious identities empower the lower groups. This is their angst towards 'corporate' too. Modernism, corporate, unified entities are great levelers. Vellala supremacy needs local validators. They want a free hand in suppressing social mobility of lower groups. They have probably figured out a way to maneuver the dominant non-elite feudal groups, the kanganis.
The following are excerpts from Susan Bayly's book 'Saints, Goddesses and Kings...'.
The keyword here is "reallocate tokens of rank and precedence..."
Understand the vellala mindset. Without doing that, you won't understand Dravidian movt/propaganda.
That Adi Saiva Sivacharyars are veLLALars is a claim made by veLLALars.
ReplyDeleteI do understand you are trying to call the bluff off i.e. "if they are not Brahmins as you claim then what you claim to fight for is already accomplished. You can't have it both ways".
But the fact remains that it is an unsubstantiable claim.
- Sivacharyars have rishi lineage gotrams
- their classify themselves under Vedic sutrams
The VellALars who claim that AdiSaivas are not Brahmins don't bother to give any proof like this.
Periyapuranam, written by the great veLLaLar sEkkizhAr perumAn, describes (for instance) Sundarar as AdiSaivar.
And, as you know, the very point of contention in the argument with SivaperumAn, who stops his wedding is that 'he is a Brahmin and therefore cannot be the slave of any man'.
These empty assertions have no basis in fact.
Most tellingly, there is no equivalent claim like this whatsoever in the Vaishnavite side.
It is not as if there is a dearth of Tamil bhakthi literature, commentary tradition and so on.
There is no manufactured tension there that artificially pits the āgamās and Védās against each other.
Boss. ur too attached to this religious stuff and therefore are blind to social realities. Wikipedia says that Iyer Iyengar and gurukkal are the sole brahmin castes. But Edgar Thurston says that gurukkal are non-brahmins and sivachariar are.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is...this confusion is what the vellala dogs want. Because otherwise their identity stand out.
My circumstantial evidence to show agamas are not strictly 'vedic' (whatever that means) is justified IMO. But y'all are blindly defending agamas. You must show why. Do you know the agamas of TN? Or the agamas of veerashaivism? My guess is that the agamas are remnants of Buddhism. But they need that link to 'vedic' stuff and Hinduism because they need legitimacy.
How could agamas be a 'vedic' stuff when they
1. Uphold rights/supremacy of Vellala dogs in their temples?
2. Talk about 'kudamuzhukku'? Kudamuzhukku is a near-tamol tradition.
Obviously, the vellala dogs have heavily mixed their own stuff with the 'vedic' stuff and categorised them as 'agama'.
As I see from here...the reason why you, RCI, Sree Iyer, rangaraj pandey et al defend agamas is...you too don't know whats inside it.
You are just "defending traditions from hostilities". Thats the sole idea. You are blindly defending what you think is 'tradition/vedic custom" from what you think are hostile forces to those. You don't open your eyes to see that they are the same. Both agamas and #drav are from the vellala dogs and causing pain to you is their purpose. They don't need you to protect their agamas from their Dravidian movement.
Your reaction to what u think is an attack kn Hinduism/tradition...thats what they want. They will paint that as the obstacle to their socia justice and use it as a justifier for brahmin hate.
Adi Saiva vellala dogs have filed a case in court against the moves of the vellala dogs on the #drav side. They have mentioned that they are not Brahmins https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/sivachariyargal-move-hc-against-insistence-on-completion-certificate-for-archakar-appointment/article35931788.ece/amp/.
I keep saying tthis. The psychology of the vellala dogs is - they want brahmin(ism) but also the Brahmin hate!!
They have been thr creators of a hundred years of Brahmin hate, but they *want* to be mistaken for Brahmins. Andha mel sadhiya thaangalum aaganum endra nappasai. Apdi aaga mudiyala enbadhal dhan hate.
My circumstantial evidence is enough for me to be able to say that agamas of TN are not 'vedic' and have been used by the vellala dogs for their hate
But y'all have been blindly supporting agamas. You have to show why you do it. Do you know what's inside it?
How hard do you think it is to fake gotrams?
ReplyDeleteAnd do u know about the Vedic study paraphernalia? Who controls it?
Hell, j think the same vellala dogs like Pillai rajavel who attack kanchi mutt are the ones who established it!! Jnanaprakasa mutt is adjacent to kanchi. I don't see explanations from brahmin side. They r only painting the attackers as anti-hindu. But the fact is that brahmtards themselves don't know the history of kanchi mutt, but r defending it . It's not one of the 4 mutts established by adi Sankara. See how the vellala dogs invite guys from Sringeri. Sringeri or non-tamils don't know what the Vellalas have been saying about the Brahmins.
I'm not blaming Brahmins of TN. The Tamil and the vellala/nagarathar is unique in the whole world. India cannot grasp them. India stll thinks Rajiv Gandhi was murdered by LTTE. But you can't be *so* blind!!
Do u know for sure that only 'brahmins' learn Vedas in TN?
I'm saying...veda and religion itself is a placebo
I don't want to get into all that now...
I have no clue whatsoever what the āgamams are whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteVV posted a link to a whole bunch of texts to his drive. But those are original text themselves. Valuable as they may be. I need some kind of reliable scholarly layer in-between who can parse them for me and be able to answer my questions on the lines of பேய் இருக்கா இல்லையா? பாத்திருக்காய்ஞளா பாக்கலையா? நம்பலாமா நம்பப்படாதா?
As you mentioned in one of the earlier posts, āgamams are likely local and distributed. But they are not antithetical as the anti-Brahmin Tamil Saivisim தரப்பு tries to propound.
That runs counter to extollations in the ThirumuRaigaL and the straight narratives in PeriyapurANam.
The reason why I claim that the claim of āgamams are in tension with védams is because there is virtually no such tension in the Vaishnava side.
There could be two reasons for it:
1) It so happens that the vaishnava āgamās alone happened to conform to védic primacies (It's already getting too meta for me, but you get the drift of what I am saying)
2) Or, the tension is completely fake on the Saiva site and owes to the fact that there exists mutts and traditions of pontiffs drawn from the non-brahmin elite. The called the shots forever on religious issues. And while not formally ill-disposed to védās /Sanskrit (which you characterise as cunning appropriation!) they form a bulwark around which an artificial TamilX Sanskrit, āgama X véda tension is maintained.
You may object to my usage of the word 'artificial' as pointless because the artifice is what has the traction on the ground and powers the criminal ATB hatred here. Fair enough.
My usage is to keep things on the mat. To assert that the tension is built on an artifice. Tamil Saivam being non-Vedic is a big hoax. It is just a cloak for ATB bigotry.
To your possible chagrin, I shall remain unconvinced about near-congenital towards evil of any caste. Not just because it is strategically important and some bull like that. I have no illusions whatsoever that TBs are on their own in this bigoted Dravidosphere.
It is just that the moment one buys into fatalistic ideas of congenital evil of elite castes, then you are only left with operating in a plane of viewing EVERYTHING from a meta-angle. As opposed to seeing what is concretely out there. To focus on what is incontrovertible out in the open does not imply denying any possibilities of foul-play, bad-faith behind the scenes. Just that it pointless to ignore the actual manifestations on the ground - observing which does not require one to either buy-into or dismiss the possibilities of machinations. That's all.
Which is why I am body-swerving around many points in your responses above which seem 'obvious' to you, and sticking to some specifics alone.
Regarding faking gotrams etc. This gets very meta.
I don't even understand what you mean.
Do you mean every single AdiSaivar out there is 'pretending'?
They are living the lives aren't they? What do you even mean?
If, say, they were a sub-caste of Vellalas and have been living as brahamans for centuries then how does it even matter? எனக்கு அதுவே புரியலை.
If Sundarar was an AdiSaivar then that's about it isn't it?
How are they different from any other brahmin sub-caste??
It is not as if some non-aid Saivar boy suddenly becomes undercover adi-saivar to bring down the system from within.
I don't understand what you mean by being inimical to Vedas or vedic tradition. Do we know what that is so we can label things as being pro or anti-vedic?
DeleteI'm saying I too don't know what constitutes 'vedic tradition' but what I'm saying is that it should be obvious that the 'agamas' of TN are heavily abridged, probably by Vellalas. Vaishnava angle is non-existent because most tamil elites were saivas. Tuluva mudalis/vellala maybe Vaishnava but religion is not a main subject of their hate. They r more political. Ritual/religion is an important part of hate of Saiva vellala and nattukottai dogs and they are supposed to be Saivas. I don't know what 'tension with vedic' means, but Ive been saying that #drav is filled with false alarms and non-issues. The issues are just a conduit for their hate. They spew hate but retract their steps whether or not we interfere.
Brahmin hate lived and lives in the Tamil collective consciousness at all times. But if you say nattukottai nagarathar, Saiva vellala and thuluva vellala mudaliar didn't do it, I can't do anything. I can't make you *see*. You have to do it. If ur saying my 'theories' come in the way of ur reading of ground realities, do u have a sufficient explanation for them as of now?
For adi Saiva matter. Pls check out the link. Please check out the clips on my primer post. Not me. THEY are themselves saying that adi saivas are not Brahmins. They have been learning your Vedas and not bothering to correct people when they mistake them for Brahmins. + Gotra. All these are facts. There is no need to'debate' over facts. Only validation.
I'm not saying they r faking. The Father knows. But he doesn't tell his son. His son grows up thinking he's a brahmin, and somehow later comes to know but doesn't do anything about it, and continues to live that way. Why not something like this? Not just this guilt. The Vellalas have great hate that burns out guilt and conscience for many many other things. Hate burns burns out guilt. Soon, it becomes a practice.
If Vellalas have been putting on poonool and calling themselves as Brahmins and you have no problem with it, I don't know what to say. For last line, what do u mean 'bring down system'?
Do u still think this is a conspiracy to destroy 'hindu traditions'?
Did u see kalaiarasi natarajan's interview with liberty tamil where the she-demon said "any tamil who prays to Shiva is an adi saivan"?
When you talk/think about protecting customs/tradition/religion, you have to think if there's a section of people who have the same value system as you do. And that section needs to have clout in society.
The problem in TN is... people have that value system, but that's not it. They have something more *in addition to* that value system and you are taking that something* to be opposed to that value system. It's not opposed. It's over and above. Tbaf value system is a subset of #drav.
//I don't understand what you mean by being inimical to Vedas or vedic tradition. Do we know what that is so we can label things as being pro or anti-vedic? //
DeleteThe accusation of 'inmical to Vedas' is coming from the தனித்தமிழ்ச்சைவம் தரப்பு.
The onus on proving it is inmical is on them.
I don't know either Vedas or agamas. What I do know quite reasonably is from bhakthi literature there is a complete absence of ANY tension between Vedas and agamas.
I see the allegation of tension only coming from the most irreliable group: தனித்தமிழ் சைவமரபு.
/it should be obvious that the 'agamas' of TN are heavily abridged/
I don't know enough to assert even that with any level of certainty!
/ Vaishnava angle is non-existent because most tamil elites were saivas. Tuluva mudalis/vellala maybe Vaishnava but religion is not a main subject of their hate. /
That is kinda my point: the whole 'tension' is artificially politically manufactured by the landed caste elites. Without insitutional heft on the Vaishnavite side (thank God for small mercies) a malicious narrative of 'tension between traditions' was not spun up.
/ #drav is filled with false alarms and non-issues. The issues are just a conduit for their hate. /
I don't disagree at all.
/ If ur saying my 'theories' come in the way of ur reading of ground realities, do u have a sufficient explanation for them as of now? /
I am not saying they come in the way.I am saying the theory is an explanation you have.
Not everyone is obliged to agree, much to your consternation.
But the issues being raised are in the open and concrete. When they are demonstrated to be baseless non-issues and false-alarms it will make sense EVEN to those who do not buy into your theories of machinations.
Of course, I do understand your stance: that counter arguing false-claims is a thankless and endless task. As long as the 'source' of the bad-faith and malice is not exposed for what it is there will always be an endless stream of bigoted nonsense that will tire the earnest folks out. A structural disadvantage a sathya-anwéshi suffers against Dravida bigots driven by agenda.
1/n
/THEY are themselves saying that adi saivas are not Brahmins. /
DeletevellALars like Nellai Kannan are saying it. They are the saying 'those are our boys'.
Adi Saivas themselves consider themselves a Brahmin subcaste, right? That is my point.
/If Vellalas have been putting on poonool and calling themselves as Brahmins and you have no problem with it, I don't know what to say./
Let me meet you midway: let us assume that a veLLaLa subcaste branched out and were initiated in the Brahminhood so as to serve the Tamil Saiva temples.
Pray, when did this happen?Several centuries back: before Sundarar right?
They have been living the life for centuries.
From endogamy, to observing strictures behaviourial strictures that behoove archakars in their private lives, observing the rituals by the prescriptive norms - how are they any different from other brahmin subcastes?
How is it any different from Vishwamitra or Vaitahavya in whose names even Gotrams exist!
/For last line, what do u mean 'bring down system'?/
I was being faceitious. i.e. surely you are not suggesting that someone born in a non-AdiSaiva family decides to become an AdiSaiva by observances of ritual initiations and that too with the express purposes of furthering the agenda of தனித்தமிழ்சைவம் cockamamee.
2/n
/Do u still think this is a conspiracy to destroy 'hindu traditions'?/
DeleteI don't think it is a missionary agenda to destroy Hinduism and bullcrap like that.But I have no doubt whatsoever that it is a concentrated effort to dilute traditional rigour so as to keep alive the hoaxes that TamilSaivam is something different, that what we see today is an appropriation/digestion and what not.
To reductively state your position: you say 'it is not missionary breaking india agenda, it is elite landed caste anti brahmin hate'.
I say: just look at the content of the claims. They are thorough nonsense. That should suffice for any reasonable person to consign them to the dustbin.
For example: take the infamous seminar at St.Xavier's palayamkottai in the 90s about 'நாட்டார் தெய்வங்கள் X பெருந்தெய்வங்கள்'. It doesn't become cunning missionary agenda just because it happened an SJ college. It may be but that is not the point at all. It is the traction that the ridiculous nonsense spouted thereon that has no feet to stand even on its own terms.
Tamil discourse has a rigour problem.
Is there any place in the world where Tho.Paramasivam would be regarded as a scholar? Would any linguist worth his salt consider Pavanar(ism) anything but an embarassment? Would any (pardon the pun!) self-respecting libertarian touch EVR with a barge-pole?
The site of the prejudice driven ideological violence is the utter vacuity of the theories right there. This much is obvious without even considering the alleged behind-scene machinations. (I repeat myself!)
/ she-demon said "any tamil who prays to Shiva is an adi saivan"?/
Does this make ANY sense whatsoever? Isn't the ridiculousness of the claim self-evident.
//When you talk/think about protecting customs/tradition/religion, you have to think if there's a section of people who have the same value system as you do. And that section needs to have clout in society.//
Fair enough.
/It's not opposed. It's over and above. Tbaf value system is a subset of #drav.//
I am not even disagreeing. The desire to have the (say) Sanskritization while simultaneously making a show of castigating the Brahmins for allegedly thursting it against the will of the others- IS the whole show.
All I was taking exception to, is this: there is a difference between the calling the bluff of the internally inconsistent arguments made by the malicious தரப்பு, as opposed to accepting their indefensible claims as real. That is all.
n/n
/I don't know enough to assert even that with any level of certainty!/
ReplyDeleteThere is ample scope and justification to connect the dots. Put 2 & 2 together. DMK abolished hereditary appointments in 1970. Seshammal verdict of 1972 said agamas still have to be followed in new appointments. And apparently that meant appointing the 'brahmin' priests from the corresponding sects. This is wat Periyar called 'operation success patient dead'. They took a dead patient to the operation theatre. It was a hoax from the beginning.
DMK said in 2006 that any hindu can be priest. Ranjan Gogoi said in 2015 that court cannot interfere in appointing priests/personnel to denominations. So, they gave approval to DMK side. And 'non-brahmin' priests are appointed now. Sathyavel murugan says agamas don't come in the way of those appointments. Isn't it obvious that the agamas say both yes and no? The trick was in the way the Vellalas interpreted the agamas to the court. The court had no option but to listen to the vellalas' interpretation of the agamas.
Why is it that *the idol is defiled if a non-agamic person touches it* ONLY IN TEMPLES OF TAMIL DEMONS? Whether in TN or Germany or london? In other places, anybody can touch the idol. There is no strict religious rule.
Kudamuzhukku is a tamil tradition. How can it have the sanction of Vedas?
How can the agamas talk about Siva deekkai?
How can agamas say that Brahmins cannot enter certain vellala temple/mutts and if they do, it has to be purified. U can notice this is in the vellala soothra kuttis. A lemurian retort that says "no. Actually I'm higher than you. *sneer*"!
I haven't started to read the 1000 page kamikagama I dl'ed from archive.org, but what I said can be gleaned very easily.
Not everyone is obliged to agree, much to your consternation./
2+2=4 னு நான் சொன்னா, "அது உங்க கருத்து தோழர். உங்க கருத்தை என் மேல் தினிக்தாதீங்க"னு சொல்லாவீங்களா?
/vellALars like Nellai Kannan are saying it. They are the saying 'those are our boys'.
Adi Saivas themselves consider themselves a Brahmin subcaste, right?/
Let's chuck all opinions and hearsays. There is something called 'fact' right? When I point out a fact, it is my 'opinion' until proven. After it is...it is no longer an opinion, my opinion. It becomes the 'fact'. It's same to me and you. I'm saying that, going by the available evidence, adi saivas are basically Vellalas with poonool. Check this link -> https://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2001-October/002019.html you do not see the malice of the vellala soothra kuttis. They have been working like gutter rats in both directions.
If even without the Brahmin hate part, ur ok with Vellalas wearing poonool and calling/thinking themselves to brahmin, then I can't force it. All of our births were accidents, but see how echai they r. +, There's the Brahmin hate part.
/I was being faceitious. i.e. surely you are not suggesting that...agenda of தனித்தமிழ்சைவம் cockamamee./
/But I have no doubt whatsoever that it is a concentrated effort to dilute traditional rigour so as to keep alive the hoaxes that TamilSaivam is something different/
This is from somebody who is still thinking that all this is an attack on Hindu traditions by breaking india or anti-hindu forces. RCI thinks uprooting from henduism is an intermediate purgatory from chrislam. You know what...even if that does happen tomorrow, we would still not know what are the mechanisms of our society.
Good that u see that BIFs might exist but that they r not the causative agent of #drav. But u still think this is the handiwork of forces which are hostile to traditions etc.
Thats why I asked. Who do u think r the aggrieved parties? Do u think real tamil devotees are feeling as bad abt this as u do? Are Brahmins the sole kadharers?
What if this is not 'anti-tradition' to Tamils? I don't think it is.
This is still the hindu/tradition vs anti- thought.
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But is whats 'bad' to u now bad to anyone else? Do others share your value system? If they don't, aren't u thrusting ur value system on society? Thats what happened in the past. We thrusted, but that was useful to those who thrusted it for us. Those that had clout. But now they are diluting their own doings because it is less profitable for them.
DeleteWhat makes u think u can order that "only a person without history of badmouthing hindu gods and blasphemy can become priest, or handle/talk about religious affairs"?
It's the ego of the 'brahmin' identity that gets to our head. We think we are the licensing authority for devotion/religion. That ego itself is not my problem but we can't read ground realities if we do not go beyond that ego massaging. After we read them, we can build and augment that ego anew, for this age.
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Forgot to add this. Check out this vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr0Qzpwr43Y at 2nd to 6th min. She says "you (sivachariar) are just us Tamils. Why do u think ur Brahmins? All Tamils are potential sivachariars. Why r u latching on to sanskrit?"
ReplyDeleteNow connect this to nellai kannan saying "aana avan thannai pappan nu nenachukirane enna seyya".
This 'fight' is ஆத்திகவாதி-நாத்திகவாதி drama of nagarathar-vellalar, in essense.
Those ஆத்திகவாதி sivachariar are holding onto Sanskrit and brahminical stuff. The நாத்திகவாதி nagarathar-vellalar spewed venom of hate on Brahmins for those things, but they know very well that those sivachariar are not Brahmins, but they will say "so what? Vellalas and Tamils with brahminical mindset are parpaneeyam. We r never against Brahmins per se".
Do u see the game. The vellala-nagarathar split into two, and one side becomes "brahminism" and does and says those things that makes it easier for the நாத்திகவாதி side to incite hate against Brahmins, then call it "anti-brahminism". This is not a real fight. This is a drama of nattukottai Nagarathar + Vellala soothra kuttis. This game can be seen on every level. Brahmins didn't own the school/colleges and hence couldn't have denied education to Tamils. But the ones who did, were brahminical forces!!
At 8th min she differentiates Brahmins with the former. She speaks to Brahmins "you have no job here. This is between us Tamils".
If you still don't get it, if u still think this is breaking india force trying to undermine indhu madham, sorry to say ur retarded. U don't understand nagarathar-vellalar (Dravidian) movement and tamil society.